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headus 3D scans

Someone asked "What price for the final release?"
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groinc



Posts: 9
Joined: 10 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:shock: :shock:

I cant believe what I have just read. And Phil you are right, no matter what price you charge, it will be cracked anyway. I have been using the beta virtually every working day since I got it. I can safely say that it has shaved hundreds of hours off of my modelling time. Translated into money means that UVLayout would have paid for itself a few times over. When it becomes available, it will without doubt become a permanant part of our workflow. This is how business works. It is not about making everything so cheap so that everyone can afford it ( even then someone will still winge that they cant ), it is about pricing a product for what it is worth to the end user. I am an end user, and it is worth it.
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jabbermacy



Posts: 7
Joined: 15 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread sucks royally - I just got this beast, will give it a good rub, and see what springs. if it's not WORTH the money, DON'T BUY IT! don't whine about your pathetic little life, just use the blooody tools you have then!!! nobody's putting a goddam gun to your head to buy this stuff - YOU CAME HERE, REMEMBER? personally, if I was in the business and not a total hobbyist, this would rock - if I was making money at this, I'd buy it outright NOW as a show of SUPPORT instead of being a total wanker and BITCHING to the guy who gave you this nice tool to try out FREE. f-ing idioto....

THIS TOOL ROCKS (I believe, after I spend the day...)
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Dodger



Posts: 83
Joined: 14 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse me?

I don't have any problem with Phil, and if Phil has a problem with me, I don't know about it, nor do I really know Phil from Adam, but I'm terribly sorry about that but the programmer's opinion of me as a result of me speaking my mind won't stop me (and if he wants to stop me from speaking my mind, he has admin control of this board).

I STILL think the price is being set too high, I STILL think the dongle is a bad idea, Phil still doesn't agree with me, Phil is still the one in charge and will do as he pleases, and that's the end of the bloody story, except that with Phil as a businessman I hope that the opinions of people in general factor into his decisions in such matters.

Now, how effing DARE you try and tell me whether I can or should speak my opinion about this or not, Jabbermacy and Groin?

Hell, Phil, maybe you should go into politics or something. Your conga line is already all set up.
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akmenkalys



Posts: 1
Joined: 02 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great product, good price! I will definitely buy it. It's not expensive, it's 4 times cheaper then analog program I'm using now.
Good luck!
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groinc



Posts: 9
Joined: 10 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

err... Dodger, get it right. I never mentioned at all that you shouldn't voice your opinions. Speaking as a professional, I found your comments quite naive; and so I questioned your opinion. I never questioned your right to say your opinion. Everyone has their chance to say there piece, and I said mine. Surely you realise that is how forums generally run?? If you wanted to keep this exchange with Phil private, you shouldn't of posted it on a public forum.
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Dodger



Posts: 83
Joined: 14 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My statements to that effect were primarily directed at Jabbermacy, actually.

You haven't given a reason that you feel that my opinion is naive, you've just called it naive without backing that up.

I do feel that your argument, 'This is how business works. It is not about making everything so cheap so that everyone can afford it ( even then someone will still winge that they cant ), it is about pricing a product for what it is worth to the end user,' is flawed.

Business is not about pricing a product for what it is worth to the end user, it's about pricing it at the optimum price point for maximum returns.

In comparison to other pieces of software in various price ranges (such as, for instance, Adobe Photoshop CS2, $629, full 2D graphics suite; Max OS X Tiger, $114, entire high-end UNIX operating system; ZBrush 2, $480, modelling, texturing, rendering, and painting suite extraordinaire; Poser 6/Shade LE Bundle, $174, extremely popular low-end animation program), it seems to me that the price of $350 for a program that is very good at UVMapping organic meshes -- possibly the best at it, even, once the bugs are worked out -- but that ONLY does UVMapping -- is a bit steep, and above that point of maximum returns.

That's all I said.
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headus
Site Admin


Posts: 2894
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dare I fan this fire :-)

Why buy photoshop when you can download gimp for free?
I grabbed Fedore Core, an entire unix OS for free, to load on
a PC I got on ebay for $80 ... why would anyone buy a mac
and keep having to pay for OS upgrades? Why do so many
people still use Maya if Poser is so cheap?

Its not about the price, or how many tools/buttons there are,
its whether the application solves your particular problems or
not.

A year ago we had a big scanning job coming up for a games
company that I was dreading because of the UVs, so I wrote
UVLayout initially just for myself. Later I was demoing some other
software at GDC, and sort of tacked the prototype uv layout on
the end of that demo, and got so much positive feedback that
I realized I wasnt the only person in the world who hated doing
UVs.

I'm not a business man trying to work out every minute how to
maximize my profit ... I'm a programmer, sitting in a room with
no windows, trying to solve problems, and every now and then
I put in the extra effort to turn a rough-as-guts prototype (that
only its parent could ever find beautiful) into a product that
I dont feel too embarassed about other people seeing.

If UVLayout in its current form doesnt make your life $250
easier, please come back in 6 months and hopefully things
have progressed to the point where you're more comfortable
with the price vs performance balance. Maybe you'll get
a big job, that pays well, and requires lots of uv layouts?

OK, enough deep and meaningfull discussion about business
practices and pricing ... lets all get back to creating! Oh and
fixing bugs too.

bye for now,

Phil
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Dodger



Posts: 83
Joined: 14 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. I just had/have a difference of opinion -- and one that I even set a challenge for myself in the area of 'If I can make enough off stuff I finish with the beta...'

Jabbermacy's antagonistic blather just got my hackles up rather far, else I would have probably ignored Groinc's 'shock shock' bit as well.

No windows?!??!

In Perth??? One of the most beautiful cities on Earth?! Maybe the $350 is important for a completely different reason. As a moral imperative. So you can afford a window. Blocking out the sapphire skies of W.A. must be at least a venial sin.
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Rich-Art



Posts: 120
Joined: 29 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well You can ask the price you want. Buy it or if you find the price to high leave it.
I think the price is not to high.
Still a lot of money do.

I Love this UVLayout. And I hope I can buy the final version.

Peace,
Rich-Art. Wink
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kfinla



Posts: 15
Joined: 19 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, Cyslice and all the headus tools have always been specialty tools for highend work. Meaning ppl and places making money, not geared to the hobbiest.

Sure I wish this tool was slightly less$, since i'd most likely get the USB dongle version for myself. But frankly its a great looking tool. It's Phil's blood and sweat that has made this thing. He should set a price he is comfortible with and be rewarded for all his hard work. He shouldn't be expected to just give all his hard work away, or feel cheated when it comes time to reap the fruits of his labour.

Any studio should be able to see this tool pay for itself in time savings pretty quickly. Frankly making 50,, 75..$ an hr doing freelance you should be able to pay for this thing with all the hr's saved if your charging per piece etc. Heck if everyone has it its not much of an advantage when everyone expects and budgets UV's to take under a minute to do:)

I'm 99% sure i will buy a copy in the coming months just for my own personal work. The UV stage always strains my interest and focus on whatever i'm making. It could certainly mean the difference between texturing and not texturing a personal piece i've sculpted.

Cheers, Ken
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burnttoast



Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have actually started saving my paypal for this...I am a poser developer like many I think that are here, and while my hexagon was $100 and my trueSpace $99, poser upgrade $79, a great UVMapping program to me is worth it's weight in gold, and $250 is not too much for me to pay...My paypal money is my money and I do not add it to my 'home funds' very often, it will take me a few months of saving and not getting the newest poser product but it will enable me to add a couple bucks to the selling price of my poser items...good UVMaps are hard to find.

Also Phil if you could email me at
allan@burnttoastdesign.net I have a question for you...it will result in more exposure for your software Smile
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Xena



Posts: 22
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
I'm a single mother, pay $700 rent per month (dunno about WA but that's low here in NSW), yet I'm still MORE than willing to pay $250 for this awesome program. The mapping I can get out of this program in a fraction of the time it takes me in UVMapper (which is no comparison whatsoever) is worth every cent. It'll decrease my mapping time which means I can get more products out quicker, with better mapping, which texturists will support more readily.
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burnttoast



Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agreed Xena, I do nto know the x-change rate for CAN to USD but I pay $915 +Util a month for a 3bed 4Plex, and am stilll saving for this for those exact reasons.
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Shingo



Posts: 6
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

The price you are asking is rediculosuly cheap. I wouldn't even waste my time responsing to posts that question the price point. In fact, I would be more comfortable with a product that has a hgiher price point personally.

Unwrapping UV's can take days to do properly, especially when you are exporting to Zbrush, that does not tolerate overlapping points. When you calculate what you're charging a client or paying an employee, that cost is recouped in the first day or two of the first project you use it on.
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kfinla



Posts: 15
Joined: 19 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only thing to think about is if you look at a program like modo 201, your getting a UV unwarpper in that also, as well as a renderer, modeller, and bodypaint type system for 700$.

Just an observation. I like the look of UV layout and know it works, but I think the price point should not be any higher than it is.
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