headus 3D tools

[r_knightly]

Hey! I have a request to make if I may.

I find the current edge marking system quite limiting. regardless of topology the loop marking wont select entire loops just sections of them. [0,1,10] It would be great if there was a forth option which selected entire loops. end to end.

Also something else comes to mind which slows me down:
Often i need to edit a layout that has allready been packed with no concern to keeping the shells of individual polygon islands intact (Not objects/groups) it would be great if i could G select the polygon elements and have uvlayout box the uv islands that have tagged faces.


Cheers
PS. the packing seems much faster in the latest beta. Its awesome!

[headus]

"wont select entire loops"

The trick there is to use Shift-C instead of just C. It'll still stop though if it gets to a fork (i.e. its not obvious which way the loop goes).

"G select the polygon elements and ... box the uv islands"

OK, so you mean from the 3D view you want to G mark something, and then box those shells? Probably what I'd do in that case is have a button to convert G marks polys to LMB selected shells; it would be useful for other things that way.

In the meantime, you can achieve the same thing with a bit of extra work. G mark your polys in 3D, swap to UV, use the H-G H-S key sequence to hide everything else, then you can LMB select all the shells that are left and can then box them.

"the packing seems much faster"

Is that the fedora 10 64bit build? I have been working on the packing, yes, and the flattening is a bit faster in that build too. Dont use the "Rotate" option in the packing though ... its broken in that upload, but I have fixed it since. A new beta will be ready next week sometime.

Phil

[r_knightly]

Shift + C was exactly what I was looking for. the problem is, is that this behaviour isnt mirrored in tagging edges as straight. If i press shift I it only selects partial loops.

converting face selection to LMB selections sounds like exactly what im looking for with regard to the boxing.(also, thanks for the work around)

so far as the packing speed goes Im using the latest windows beta build. perhaps Im imagining it but it just seems much quicker. Regardless I look forward to seeing the faster packing and flattening when it reaches the windows build.

[headus]

"If i press shift I it only selects partial loops."

Ahhh, yes, that's true. Let me think about that one.

"converting face selection to LMB selections"

OK, I should be able to get that into the next release.

"so far as the packing speed goes Im using the latest windows beta"

I don't remember doing anything before uploading that windows beta, but its possible. Anyway, if you think the imaginary speed up is good, wait until you see the real thing :)

Phil

[r_knightly]

thanks Phil. Much appreciated.

[nbreslow]

Cool selecting method in this new Modeling Tool for Maya - Diamont Tools (http://www.rd3d.com/dtools.htm). See the 'Selection Tools' animation. Made me think of UVLayout. It would be cool to select a single edge, then click + drag to tag edges as needed instead of the 'look ahead in set increments' method.

-nbreslow

[headus]

"select a single edge, then click + drag to tag edges as needed

Yep, it sounds like a good idea. I'll try and get it into the next release.

Phil

[headus]

Which build of UVLayout are you using (i.e. Win, OSX or Linux)? I've just gotten that new cut edge selection thing working, so can upload the beta if you want.

Phil

[nbreslow]

I am on Win 7 and could put it through its paces later today and PM you feedback/bugs. Nice work! I was doing a little research in the Maya API to try and figure out how he did it but didn't make much progress. Need to improve my code skills...Thanks again,

-Nick Breslow

[headus]

So if you login to your uvlayout.com account, you'll find the new installer on the Support Extras page.

Open up the Edit panel and click the "D" for "Drag" option at the end of the "0/1/10" row. Then in the Ed or UV views, you can aim the mouse pointer at an edge as before, but hold down the C key and drag the pointer to draw out the edge selection.

Its based on the same edge loop detection code as before, so wont go any further if it hits a fork. You'll need to release the C then start again from the side of the fork you want to continue from. I'm thinking a future tweak might be to decide which way to go at a fork based on the pointer location (i.e. you be able to guide it around without having to release the C key).

Phil

[nbreslow]

Awesome - really nice addition, thanks so much. I tested, completely stable.

Regarding edge loop detection logic and drag mode:

When I came to a valence 3 vertex drag selection would continue through the fork and I had no control over direction. When I came to a valence 5 vertex drag selection stopped at the fork. I think that drag selection should only work with a valence 4 vertex and should stop when it encounters a vertex of any other valence ('fork'). A good way to handle these 'forks' would be to have a hotkey that cycles through all the edges connected to the last vertex in the line segment that was just selected. This would be great for a few reasons:

1) It would allow you to pick up where you left off without having to mouse over the 'next edge', which can be difficult in tight areas.
2) The workflow to create a shell is simplified because it becomes essentially two buttons with less maneuvering to select edges.
3) You can 'drive' selection around the model from a more zoomed out perspective in the viewport which can be useful on organic models.
4) Completely predictable workflow where the user has total control over what is being selected. While the 'look ahead' logic of the 1/10 mode is useful, I often find myself having to go back to untag edges because it went past what I wanted.

Of course using pointer location to drive selection would be great but I would put it as a separate mode in addition to drag selection and would implement it like this:

1) Press P button (in Edit menu) to activate Pointer mode.
2) Mouse over edge and press & hold hotkey C to tag the starting edge and begin a continuous drag selection.
3A) Each time the user encounters a 'Fork' an evaluation edge is created automatically, mouse position is read in relation to the valence 3/5 vertex, and selection continues based on that position.
3B) Each time the user presses the Spacebar (hotkey C still engaged) an evaluation edge is created manually, mouse position is read in relation to the last vertex in the line segment and the selection continues based on that position.
4) Releasing hotkey C ends the continuous selection.

This method has obvious advantages and disadvantages but would be sweet. Kind of like using the Pen Tool in Photoshop but with some built in logic to handle 'forks'. I hope I have explained this well enough!

Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the final implementation (though how you have it in the ver. I tried is already a big help.) Have a great weekend,

-Nick

[headus]

"I tested, completely stable."

Thanks, that's great news!

"When I came to a valence 3 vertex drag selection would continue through the fork and I had no control over direction. When I came to a valence 5 vertex drag selection stopped at the fork."

Actually, the rule isn't driven by the valence, its purely based on the angles of the edges at each junction. If there's one edge that's an obvious continuation of the previous edge (e.g.. 180 degree angle between them) that one is selected. If there's 2 edges with a similar angle though (e.g. 160 and 200 degrees) then the selection stops because its not obvious which would be the correct continuation of the edge loop.

"I hope I have explained this well enough!"

Perfectly :) They're all good suggestions, so I'll have a play around with the ideas and will let you know when theres something new to try out.

Phil

[headus]

I just got the mouse directing forking working ... if you look at the pic below, I've dragged the edge selection from the top down the mesh, and blue edges indicate where a fork was hit and where the next edge has been selected based on the pointer position (marked with a red X). I haven't had a chance to test it properly, but will upload a new installer anyway so you can have a play with it over the weekend. Stay tuned ...

Phil

[headus]

OK, the new installer is up on the Support Extras page. I already found one bug though ... it doesn't work with Symmetry turned on (the symmetry edges don't get untagged when the loop changes direction at a fork) ... I'll fix that on Monday.

Phil

[nbreslow]

Really cool stuff! I put it through its paces and have some feedback..

The two images show the two situations where it was very difficult (zoomed in or out, slow mouse or fast, etc.) to make the selection go in the direction where there is a red X. In both cases I think that can be chalked up to the logic relying on angles vs. valence. After a little playing I was able to sort of swing the mouse around to get it to go my way. Maybe that can be optimized a little, not sure. Diamont Modeling Tools has the the new drag select in two options - one for drag selecting continuous edgeloops where it stops at forks (simple), and one for drag selecting with some sort of logic built in based on mouse position (advanced).

The 'simple' version is pretty self explanatory and would be the way you had it in the first beta, except it would stop at forks.

The 'advanced' version could go a lot of different ways. The angle logic is good though it seems to be harder on acute angles/more extreme changes in direction. Forcing an evaluation of the mouse at forks or via user input might give you more control but make the process a little less fluid. Pros and cons of both!

I look forward to seeing how it ultimately shakes out. Really glad you made these improvements - in whatever the final form they take they make the process a lot easier. Much appreciated!

-Nick

PS - Besides symmetry, Shift+C doesn't work in 'D' mode.